Unpopular opinions!

Discussion in 'General' started by _pi_, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Give these films time. I've watched TCM and actually laughed all the way through it - this was at a cinematic showing. The whole audience was having a great time.

    I've also watched it - when in the right mood - and been disturbed by it. It's a magic movie really, so well realized in every way. Sometimes you need more than one or two goes through to finally settle with it - especially when a film comes with the burden of so much expectation due to what's been written about it. I say - give it another go.

    Frankly, I feel the same about Last House on the Left. That can either be the most annoying film you ever saw, or a powerful horror flick - depending on circumstance.
     
  2. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    BINGO!!!!!!!, this is exactly what i was tryin to do when picking the TOP 100 horror films of ALL-TIME........., i was being objective, as i have voiced 3 billion times, how much i hate both CARRIE and THE SHINNING, but i still felt they were among the BEST horror films made and rightly deserved thier place on the list.....;)
     
  3. ThievingWinona

    ThievingWinona New Member

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    I don't know, you'd have to ask a mathematician.

    I'm talking formalism in regards to judgements of art; aesthetics, people such as Clive Bell who believe in Significant Form.

    For trying to look so intelligent with your sarcastic response, I'd expect you to at least be in the same ball park as to what I was talking about. I hope you didn't have to google search for your mathematical formula :D
     
  4. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    Can you give me a Horror film Top 10, 20, 50 or whatever, based on "formalism in regards to judgements of art" or know anyone who has? I'm not being sarcastic I would actually be interested in seeing it.
     
  5. ThievingWinona

    ThievingWinona New Member

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    Sure, I could do up a list for you. But that's not the point. The point is that you wouldn't care and/or agree with it because you are a Subjectivist.

    ANY type of list/ranking of anything is something that is inherently wrong to a subjectivist's point of view. Therefore, I could sit here and write up a list of 50 horror films for you, but it would be pointless because you would be biased against it from the get go. If your brain does not comprehend a formalist perspective, or at the very least the ability to recognize that it exists, then every conversation/debate is dead from the very beginning. It's apples and oranges.

    A better question, and one well worth debating, is whether formalist thinking is valid. Engaging the question as to whether or not there is an underlying something to, in our case horror films, that cause them to be superior to others is what should be addressed. Some people call that "something" Standards. People like Clive Bell called it Significant Form. But even some of the staunchest subjectivist proponents (such as Kant) always fall back on formal elements to give their arguments.

    Which is why I suggested everyone just post their perspective. There is nothing wrong with being a subjectivist, by any means. I happen to be a formalist, but just call it like it is. If I know you're a subjectivist, I'm not going to bother writing and responding to post after post of what amounts to nonsense because it just won't get us anywhere. If you're a formalist, then it's much easier to have a conversation/debate because we're both thinking on the same wave length, so to speak.

    Maybe a bad example, but it's sort of like the battles between liberals and conservatives. Most people on both sides just can't comprehend why the other side thinks like they do. Therefore, almost every "debate" ends with nothing being accomplished. Some people just think in different ways and in my opinion at least, it's a waste of time to engage those who either can't recognize that fact, refuse to, or just have no conscious clue that that way of thinking even exists.

    That's my very unpopular opinion, anyway :D (unpopular mainly because 99% of everyone on this planet thinks subjectively about almost everything be it politics, art, etc.)
     
  6. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    Why wouldn't I agree or care? The average person on these boards are not mindless gorehounds. Yes we have are favorites but most off us know what a good horror film is when we see one.

    Coincidentally I was actually trying to figure out what my top 100 Horror films where are the other day and I used a combination of what's my favorite and what I think is technically the best 100 horror films.

    It's not really in order but the top 30 pretty much are for me after that it's pretty much just a no order top 100 list. It probably needs some fine tuning as I'm sure I left some out. The point is would a objective list look that much different?

    1.Carrie (1976)
    2.The Exorcist (1973)
    3.The Texas chainsaw massacre (1974)
    4.The Shining (1980)
    5.The Blair Witch Project (1999)
    6.The Evil Dead (1981)
    7.Suspiria (1977)
    8.Black Christmas (1974)
    9.Jaws (1975)
    10.Alien (1979)
    11.Psycho (1960)
    12.Night of the Living Dead (1968)
    13.The Wicker Man (1973)
    14.The Thing (1982)
    15.The Silence of the Lambs (1991)
    16.Deep Red (1975)
    17.Nosferatu (1922)
    18.Tenebre (1982)
    19.Frankenstein (1931)
    20.An American Werewolf in London (1981)
    21.Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956)
    22.Haute Tension (2003)
    23.Dawn of the Dead (1978)
    24.Hallowen (1978)
    25.Thesis (1996)
    26.Santa Sangre (1989)
    27.Deathdream (1974)
    28.Paperhouse (1988)
    29.Audition (1999)
    30.The Changeling (1980)
    31.Opera (1987)
    32.A Nightmare On Elm Steet (1984)
    33.Phantasm (1979)
    34.The Omen (1976)
    35.The Body Snatcher (1945)
    36.The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
    37.Eyes Without a Face (1960)
    38.The Fly (1986)
    39.The Haunting (1963)
    40.I Walked With a Zombie (1943)
    41.Cat people (1942)
    42.King Kong (1933)
    43.Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1931)
    44.The Devils Rejects (2005)
    45.Maniac (1980)
    46.The Devil's Backbone (2001)
    47.The Descent (2005)
    48.Inferno (1980)
    49.Masque of the Red Death (1964)
    50.Nosferatu the Vampyre (1979)
    51.Poltergeist (1982)
    52.Carnival of Souls (1962)
    53.Creepshow (1982)
    54.The Hills Have Eyes (1977)
    55.Let's Scare Jessica to Death (1971)
    56.Rosemary's Baby (1968)
    57.Candyman (1992)
    58.Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
    59.Diabolique (1955)
    60.Faust (1926)
    61.Grindhouse (2007)
    62.Spoorloos (1988)
    63.The Innocents (1961)
    64.The Birds (1963)
    65.Freaks (1932)
    66.The Unknown (1927)
    67.Funny Games (1997)
    68.The Eye (2002)
    69.Ravenous (1999)
    70.Stir of Echoes (1999)
    71.May (2002)
    72.Long Weekend (1978)
    73.Night of the Demon (1957)
    74.The Beyond (1981)
    75.The Legend of Hell House (1973)
    76.Re-Animator (1985)
    77.Shaun of the Dead (2004)
    78.The Wolf Man (1941)
    79.Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (1986)
    80.Hellraiser (1987)
    81.Witchfinder General (1968)
    82.Village of the Damned (1960)
    83.The Bad Seed (1956)
    84.The Night of the Hunter (1955)
    85.The Curse of Frankenstein (1957)
    86.Onibaba (1964)
    87.Kill, Baby... Kill! (1968)
    88.Blind Beast (1969)
    89.Peeping Tom (1960)
    90.Blood and Black Lace (1965)
    91.Bride of Frankenstein (1935)
    92.Black Sunday (1960)
    93.Island of Lost Souls (1933)
    94.28 Days Later... (2002)
    95.M (1931)
    96.Martin (1977)
    97.Frailty (2001)
    98.Ringu (1998)
    99.Jacob's Ladder (1990)
    100.Session 9 (2001)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2007
  7. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    These lists are always problematic. I don't think it's possible to write a definitive list really, or rather, I seriously think there is zero chance of the members of this board being able to agree on a top 30 - let alone a 100. And I do mean a zero chance.

    On your list (top 30) I'd definately disagree with:

    Carrie
    Black Christmas
    Jaws
    Wicker Man
    Silence of the Lambs
    Thesis

    Those are the ones I'd strike from a top 30. Others I'd debate. That's actually the fun of the thing.

    As I've said countless times before, you can't start without first defining exactly what a horror movie is in the context of the poll/list. I still don't consider either Jaws or Silence of the Lambs to be horror films, let alone make a top 100 list. But we're all different. The problem with the previous poll was that the voting went on forever, and there was no definition, so some weird stuff got in there and there were no rules that could effectively compile a list. Just for me, anyway.
     
  8. Fistfuck

    Fistfuck Slowest to 2000 posts

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    Hey! I know what this thread needs! A good fist in its ass! YAY FUN!
     
  9. Ash28M

    Ash28M Active Member

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    What about the Exorcist have you softened your stance on that?
     
  10. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Historically I can appreciate its significance. Personally I wouldn't put it in, but I can't deny it has had some power. There are others I'd argue against too, but the ones listed were the ones I'd simply drop. Hell, I don't even own The Shining on DVD (saw it way back though).

    Gialls are giallos, they're not horror flicks. ;)
     
  11. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    dwatts let's see your top 10....

    and too be fair, JAWS as far as historical significants, trumps most horror films u put up there............and IS a top 10 horror film all time....
     
  12. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Yes, historically Jaws has significance - but it's not a horror film, so while that's true, it doesn't matter in this context.

    I could put together a top ten, but as I have said, it'd just be a personal favorites list and of no real importance. Without a definition of what horror is, we'd surely disagree on a bunch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  13. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    JAWS is not horror :confused:

    BOLLOCKS!!!!! :lol:


    it certainly is horror :D
     
  14. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    :lol: I have a pair of those.

    So what's your definition of horror? A couple gory deaths doesn't equate to horror for me, and to me it's clearly a thriller rather than a horror film.

    But this just goes to show the difficulty involved. I like Jaws - though I don't revisit it much. It's a good film with plenty of thrills and spills for sure. It just wouldn't make a top 500 horror film list for me.
     
  15. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    gory deaths???, who's sayin that :eek2:

    what determins a horror film, i guess will differ from person to person...

    a big fookin shark who's tryin to EAT me is pure HORROR :lol:

    ANYWAY...dwatts, just for kicks, let's see ur personal favorite top 10 list of horror films, this way i can get a better understanding of what u deem as horror.......
     
  16. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    I'll put together a top ten. Although just ten titles is BRUTAL. ;)

    It would be horrible, but it's not horror. :D

    I think we might be caught in a loop here, and should abandon the topic. :D
     
  17. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    now dwatts, if you r going to have such strong convictions about what is or is not horror, and quick to discredit worthy films, it's only fair to display ur personal top 10...., it's looks to me that u r copping out...and making lame excuses ;)


    here's my favorites, not the best made by any stretch, but my FAVORITES...
    u see dwatts i'm not scared to list em..;)

    MY PERSONAL FAVORITE TOP 10(no particular order)

    1-EVIL DEAD
    2-FRIDAY THE 13TH
    3-DEATH DREAM
    4-HELL NIGHT
    5-I DRINK YOUR BLOOD
    6-SLEEPAWAY CAMP
    7-ISLAND OF DEATH
    8-LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT
    9-BAY OF BLOOD
    10-HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME


    now i will list 10 of the best ever made, not nessarily to my liking...

    10 of the BEST HORROR EVER MADE(not in any order)

    1-THE EXORCIST
    2-HALLOWEEN
    3-JAWS
    4-NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
    5-DAWN OF THE DEAD
    6-PSYCHO
    7-TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE
    8-ROSEMARY'S BABY
    9-CARRIE
    10-THE SHINNING
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  18. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    Give me time, I'm old. You know, I could go over this endlessly, trying to get the order right. I pefer to say this isn't in any order really - and I'm sure if I spent time researching etc, that something else might break into my top ten. I find naming only ten horror films really difficult - so I always end up with an imperfect list.

    Still - this'll do for now:

    The Haunting
    Night of the Demon (Tourneur)
    Halloween
    Dracula Has Risen from the Grave
    Fiend Without a Face
    Frankenstein (Whale)
    The Thing from Another World
    Mystery of the Wax Museum
    Nosferatu
    Dark Water (original)

    The Haunting

    Just out and out the scariest film I've ever seen. If someone were to watch just one horror fil in their life - this would be perfect.

    Night of the Demon (Tourneur)

    Not without its faults, of course, but the entire tale is so expertly told, and the use of black and white photography awesome.

    Halloween

    Not only a great film, but clearly an inspirational one.

    Dracula Has Risen from the Grave

    In the end, perhaps my favorite Hammer film. ind you, they did so many great ones. This one has really held up, and the DVD was a revelation.

    Fiend Without a Face

    50's sci-fi is often under-represented on these lists, which is a pity. This film managed to combine a decent plot with some terrific effects and, yes, gore. it's a wonderful horror time capsule.

    Frankenstein (Whale)

    Since this is an "unpopular opinion" thread I have no reservation in stating, once again, that this film is better than Bride of Frankenstein. I know - a minority view. This is a case where I simply cannot understand why anyone would think differently, a total mental block on my part.

    The Thing from Another World

    Too often dismissed, or neglected, due to Carpenters film. For me this is a terrific bit of horror/sci fi.

    Mystery of the Wax Museum

    I bought the DVD for the Vincent Price version, and this came as a bonus feature. I'd never seen it before. What a totally perfect peice of cinema it is though! Whenever I need a Wax Museum fix this is the one I watch. Not that the Price film is bad, but it doesn't match Wray and Co.

    Nosferatu

    After all this time it still packs a punch.

    Dark Water (original)

    This film packs such an emotional wallop. It really got to me. I've shown in to friends since, and I've had a couple women crying in my living room. It's just shattering. I've owned the remake for a long time, but can't be bothered to watch it - I go back to the original.
     
  19. speanroc

    speanroc I WANNA BAN

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    u see dwatts, that wasen't so hard ;)

    u got some quality films on that list....:)


    i also wanna add, that determing what is purely HORROR is difficult because MOST horror films have many other genre elements involved...so FOR ME, i tend to incorperate .....HORROR/CULT/EXPLOITATION into one , when compiling such a list...:)
     
  20. dwatts

    dwatts Active Member

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    I include some cult and exploitation films, but I think most of them would struggle to make a top 100 list of Horror films. A top 100 would mean essential viewing, and while there might be a few, it truly would be only a few.

    Denis Gifford, author of the classic "Pictorial History of Horror Films" wrote:

    "Yet ask me to define a horror film and I am stumped.... For me, an element of fantasy is essential to a horror film: the impossible rather than the improbable."

    I like that as a starting point. So Silence of the Lambs, Psycho, and Jaws are not horror films. There's nothing impossible about them, they're real life events with some horrible moments (not to say there aren't horror elements to them, they're just not catagorizable as horror films). Actually, in one sense it's surprising that a board such as this doesn't have a definition posted. It doesn't have to be arbitrary, but something to go on would be good. I know there was a thread in classic once. I pondered the questions is asked several times, but never came up with a post worthy of the thread....
     

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