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Discussion in 'High Definition' started by zbinks, Jun 11, 2013.
Don't the locals know he drowned too? I could swear it's mentioned at least once.
First off I wanna say thanks for responding and discussing this. Both of you.
Only thing with Halloween II, the brother /sister stuff being introduced. It wasn't necessary. Halloween sequels could have still been made, Michael Myers a deranged mental patient escapes and kills people. And went after the one that shot him in part 1. They could have dropped the brother/sister stuff completely. Would have still worked. Better/same/worse ...That we will never know. Then next sequels, he comes back to that town and attacks. Could even keep his house and all that part of the story. Would have made sense.
Friday the 13th...it was necessary imho to continue on with the story. Unless, Friday part 2, went with the mother back from the dead killing people again. Jason absolutely defined the series. It wasn't a fan-based theory so they can connect these changes back to the original film. Fans had nothing to do with it. It was the actual story. Jason was alive and killing people. Maybe I'm not understanding where you are coming from. My apologies.
Yes, I understand the original .. Friday the 13th. As a stand alone film. Kid drowned, mother getting revenge. But like examples of Halloween, and I'm sure others change the narrative. But for me, in part two, explained he wasn't dead. Jason Voorhees. The guy that is the entire reason why we are even talking about Friday the 13th right now. Although Friday the 13th is an excellent film even if they stopped it right there. But you get the idea, where I'm coming from. But to use F vs. J as the key to the entire story? The actual official explanation of a 20+ year franchise? I disagree. Sorry, F vs. J to me, that's like a for the fans made film. Not saying that's right in saying that, it's just my opinion.
Also, Im not taking into account of Jason getting killed over and over in several films, coming "back". We get that. Just going on the main plot among the entire franchise of why Jason does what he does. Using Part 2, he saw his mother get beheaded, so he's been revenging for years. On top of what they did to him as a child presumably.
I left something out.. This is exactly what started the entire discussion..... We're talking about movies where people get brought back from the dead, stories, weird stuff like that. (don't ask, ha)
So he goes ....you know like how.... and I quote "Jason can only be brought back by Mrs Voorhees in Friday the 13th"
... (spit take) and I said excuse me?
And here we are. LOL
Well I'm certainly no expert, I only sat down and watched them all a few years ago. But I agree in the bulk of the series he did not drown in the lake in 1957 (or whenever). It seems on the first film that Jason died in 1957 by drowning. That is what his mom is seeking revenge for. And Jason is more or less a ghost which manifests flesh at the end of the first film. I can't come up with a more "logical" explanation.
Isn't that Tom Savini's complaint at the time for the tacked on ending? That it wasn't originally scripted for Jason to come back and makes no sense in the film as a kid in the present day. If Jason was still alive he wouldn't be a kid in 1980 and if he was dead for 20+ years in a lake he wouldn't be this fully fleshed out body.
Was his body ever recovered from the lake? Did his mother bury his body in a cemetery? Or was it an empty casket?
And why would young Jason be in Hell? He wasn't otherwise evil before he drowned. Or was he?
But then in Part 2 he seems to be a living adult who doesn't show any other sign of being supernatural (besides movie logic). Perhaps he lived in the woods for 20 years without his mother knowing it (or she kept him in the woods and told the rest of the world he was dead?). So he perhaps survived, made his way to the shore in 1957 and was assumed by his mother to be dead at the bottom of the lake. He then raised himself in the woods. That Jason was only reunited with her when she came back to the camp site and died in the first film; perhaps with him never meeting her alive. He then imagined her the way Norman Bates did his mother; that the teen could fool him to believe she was his mother makes it seem like the ghost of his mother wasn't around to contradict her.
Even in Part 3 and 4 it is plausible (in movie logic) he's still a living breathing human. Who is then so clearly killed on screen in 4 that he stayed dead in Part 5 and had to become a re-animated corpse to continue the franchise in Part 6. What's interesting is that Part 5 suggests Jason's dead-dead as supernatural forces aren't acting. And even in Part 6 it's a Frankensteinian lightning bolt that revives Jason. NOT his mom. Overall the series strove for a more "natural" explanation than supernatural. How he came back at the end of Part 1 just doesn't fit.
So if you're talking about the first film, a dead Jason revived supernaturally seems to make the most sense.
From Part 2 on, it seems re-written that he survived drowning and was alive until the end of Part 4, then revived in a Frankensteinian fashion in part 6.
A lot of what you wrote here is how I always thought the film's story was. Assumed drowned, witnessed mothers death, the rest is history. All his demises and resurrections in later films from like you said, lightning bolts, telekinesis, all crazy stuff.... but no mom.
Yeah, I think they never recovered the body from the lake. That was brought up or said a couple of times.
The end of the original film. What you're saying about Savini. I have no idea. Never heard that, so I can't comment. But I will say, that end was just a dream. In her mind, from what the mother was yelling at her about. She's dreamed that. So , I don't know how that plays or doesn't play into it.
About the mother/Jason. Mother, not knowing Jason was still alive... She was "well kept" right. She had a car, etc... Look at Part 2. Jason lived in shack in woods. He was disfigured, etc... Lived as by himself, we assume. No maids. LOL
Sheesh, now you’re making me need to see the movie again.
I’m reasonably sure that the truck driver mentions the murders, less sure about the drowning. Drownings aren’t particularly rare occurrences so I don’t know why they’d have so much memory of that after that much time. They’re tragic but not really much reason to name a place Camp Blood.
This is great! It reminds me of the "Is Muffin Alive or Dead?" thread from a few years ago!
Yeah I don't know why you friend is leaning so heavily on FvJ for Friday the 13th history. Again though, if you're using Part 2 as your argument then I don't think you can tell him he can't use FvJ as an example. They made this shit up as they went along so expect things to not line up in any debate. That's why fans like to break this up into "living" Jason (1-4), or zombie Jason (5-onward).
Jason being a ghost in the first film is the most logical conclusion for you? I think it's pretty clear the end of the original is a dream/nightmare that Alice has after her traumatic experience and having just learnt a young boy drowned there many years ago.
You can thank me later
But I just SAW that movie! Damn my lousy memory for details. This is precisely why I suck so hard at picking the 5 snapshots.
80s slashers..........where story lines are quite irrelevant at times. Which is one of the reasons I love em
Well in Friday the 13th.
"Jason can only be brought back by Mrs Voorhees in Friday the 13th"
This never happened. So it's not relevant whatsoever to the story.
As I said, I'm no expert, but I watched the end of "Part 1" again. The sheriff says they pulled her out of the lake, so she got out of the canoe and into the lake somehow. Additionally, she's never considers it was just a dream. Based on what we see in a movie it could be a dream. But based on the character's own experience it was not a dream.
Since he did come back that seems less and less a dream to me. And if he did come back at the end of "Part 1" what state he was in is fun to conjecture about.
All I have to add is that you guys will love my Ultimate Friday the 13th project.