Vinegar Syndrome - New Genre Label

Discussion in 'General' started by MorallySound, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. CPT HOOK

    CPT HOOK Well-Known Member

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    It's wonderful.
     
  2. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

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    Don't need to double dip on Slaughterhouse Rock or X-Ray. I'm perfectly content with the previous releases.
     
  3. fattyjoe37

    fattyjoe37 Well-Known Member

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  4. Suicide

    Suicide Space Bastard!

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    I have Blu-ray copies of X-Ray, Schizoid and Slaughterhouse Rock already, so I'm not super excited about getting extra copies of them. I'm sure Vinegar Syndrome's releases will look a lot better than the pre-existing releases (and the one set will be 4K) , but they aren't really titles I'm that big of a fan that I would've upgraded any of them if they weren't included in a subscription.
     
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  5. loutoad23

    loutoad23 Active Member

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    Lots for me this month, ordered the Monthly package, slashdance and The other French New Wave. Still anticipating Horror High.
     
  6. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    Pertinent new email update:

    So it sounds like they're officially calling out the "inferior" Synapse Blu-ray release.
     
  7. hots4

    hots4 Dogs In White

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    It's interesting, Don May Jr. is usually so anal that the idea of him releasing a movie using a 20 year old master is something I can't fathom, unless Synapse have some serious financial issues that it's anything goes to keep afloat.
     
  8. hots4

    hots4 Dogs In White

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    If your a fan of Slaughterhouse Rock it's definitely worth an upgrade (From VS):

    SLAUGHTERHOUSE ROCK, which we're delighted to confirm has been restored from its uncensored original negative and includes some extra gore that was missing from the previous release!
     
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  9. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    Oh, yeah. VS has been pushing Thriller hard, when typically we only know their upcoming titles a month or two in advance. Obviously Synapse's release is influencing the extra marketing here. Any Synapse release would be of concern, but the ramping up of messaging makes me wonder if Synapse release is selling well. I can't imagine Synapse's Thriller is selling all that well, but it is on Amazon for only 20 bucks and your basic uninformed shopper will easily snap it up without wondering who has legal rights.

    With that said, their closing argument, "[we] believe that filmmakers ought to be respected (and paid for their work)," is a bit weak. It's admirable. And it sucks that not all filmmakers own their own movies. But that doesn't mean you can license a movie from a director over the legal rights owners. So, the main question still is who has those rights? I have a hard time believing anything Bo Arne Vibenius says. And say what you will of Synapse, they're rarely wrong about what their licensing rights are. Whereas VS has made a mistake (or two?).

    I'm certain they didn't release Thriller up until now precisely because it wasn't up to May's snuff.

    But, when it comes to legal disputes, it's best to have a product on the market to establish ownership. So, I suspect Synapse's release is a mix of: "Hey, we own this." "We should make the money on this." "We're establishing our ownership in the public sphere."

    I wonder if any legal writings have passed between them now though. I'd think any serious cease and desist would be publicly known. But, lawyers are expensive. Maybe both are just going to fight it out in the market place? The sad truth about these indie films is they're rarely worth the money to sue over! I don't see anyone financially "winning" that really (except buyers who may see lower prices).
     
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  10. russweiss

    russweiss Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to VS they put out about 20 times the amount of titles per year as Synapse so I'm more forgiving of them if they make a mistake or two. Either way, I picked up the Synapse release because it was so inexpensive and look forward to getting the VS release which sounds like it will be much better.
     
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  11. hots4

    hots4 Dogs In White

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  12. zbinks

    zbinks Beset by Creatures of the Deep

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    Given the parties involved, it sounds like this is Synapse's side of events. No idea what the contents of this letter are.

    http://www.horrordvds.com/community...irector-boarne-vibenius-smear-campaign.20764/
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2022
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  13. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    Wow, excellent zbinks! I'm sure there's been exchanges before that, but it would seem at the very least that on February 10th, 2022, Synapse sent to Bo Arne Vibenius's company Channel 1 another copy of their license agreement; first signed on October 22nd, 2002. Seems somewhat softball at this point but maybe Synapse wanted to give VS time to reconsider. I'd be surprised if VS didn't receive something similar. So, Synapse is holding firm and this has stood otherwise uncontested by distributors for over 15 years.

    It's one of the reasons I'm curious why VS is so confident Synapse doesn't have the license. You basically need to prove that document is now void.

    From that original thread, posted BY SynapseFilms, this is interesting too:
    If the VS release ships, I'd advise anyone the least bit interested in picking it up day and date. It may not be long for this world. And I doubt Vibenius will give Synapse access to the prints to do a better scan so long as he still has breath (and it seems his son will be the same way too). I would not wait until the following Black Friday sale.
     
  14. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    This isn't the first rights issue that VS has had to contend with. Bill Rebane believed he still owned Blood Harvest, sued them and presented court documents... and that went nowhere.

    If Synapse has somehow renewed the release rights so many years later as they claim, why couldn't they get access to the vault materials? Is it a Django situation?

    It's interesting that VS scored an Interview with Christina Lindberg, and some special extra with Vibenius. That doesn't say anything directly about the rights, but Synapse certainly did rush out their release.

    I actually just watched this one the other night. Great transfer, but the actual movie is pretty crappy...
     
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  15. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    I hate to get long winded, and IANAL, but...
    Rebane lost Blood Harvest when he failed to pay taxes and the IRS confiscated the rights and sold them at auction in lieu of payment. Rebane's sole defense was that the IRS couldn't do that; SURPRISE! Court ruled the IRS can. So, VS was definitely in the right there.

    Usually, yes. But rights to distribute don't necessarily mean rights to the materials. Great examples are when rights holders don't pay their film vault lab fees and those prints get auctioned off (or junked and dumpster divers snatch them up). Those dumpster divers can show those prints in the private of their home, even scan it and watch it in digitally at home, BUT they can't rent out a theater and charge tickets. Only the license holder can do that.

    Vibenius apparently signed a contract in perpetuity licensing Thriller to Chrome Entertainment. According to Synapse he still gets royalties and may retained control of the materials so that seemed good enough to him at the time. Not a brilliant move on Vibenius's part but not illegal. Same thing could be said of Chrome; buying a film license outright without securing materials is kinda dumb. Similarly, Synapse buying such a license from Chrome wasn't so bright either; maybe it was stupid cheap.

    Anyways, Vibenius could legally own the film materials like the negative and not the film license (because he sold the license for $10,000 to Chrome Entertainment, who sold the license to Synapse). It's unusual but not unprecedented. And Synapse can't force Vibenius to hand over the materials for whatever reason (either contractually there's no provision or simply Sweden won't uphold it).

    Hey, if you're Lindberg, and someone's gonna pay you to be on camera, whether it makes it or not you get a paycheck. Legalities are somebody else's problems. And obviously Vibenius is working with VS.

    : shrug :

    No new legal ruling has been publicly reported. So, all we can guess is that in terms of legality "nothing has changed." So, I lean towards Synapse having the rights because historically they've proved to hold the rights. This is an old legal tussle and Vibenius has tried to throw a lot of shit against the wall to see what sticks. It looks like some of it finally stuck to VS.

    Maybe VS's lawyers have seen something we haven't seen, but if they have it hasn't been shared with us. And if it's been shown to Synapse and their lawyers, they're not convinced. Then it becomes a case of VS lawyers vs. Synapse lawyers and in the end that can only be hashed out in court.
     
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  16. russweiss

    russweiss Well-Known Member

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    Did Synapse release Thriller because they heard Vinegar Syndrome was planning on putting it out? They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on some titles so I'm not sure why they would put out a lesser quality version of this only a few months before a major label released it. Also, I have to imagine that VS believes they have the right to release the film or they wouldn't have bothered. They put out over 50 titles each year plus well over twice that amount with partner label releases. Holding back one title if they weren't sure they had the right to release it wouldn't be a major issue. They obviously understand how licensing works since they've been putting out films for nearly a decade now. We can only speculate until the issue is resolved in the courts.
     
  17. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    Probably. Synapse rushed it out almost out of the blue, have not put up a notice or really responded at all about the rights controversy. As anal as they often are about taking forever to release things, it just seems odd to say the least that nearly 2 decades ago they were having their rights of it contested. I would imagine they'd be filing lawsuits first if they believe their ownership of the film is rock solid and could easily stand up in any court. I haven't heard any news about any lawsuits actually having been filed as of yet.
     
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  18. Zombie Dude

    Zombie Dude Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt in my mind that they did this. Especially with how slow they are with every damn release.
     
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  19. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    I hope the VS release is coming out, and there won't be any problems.
    Because I'm not buying a lazy Synapse release, with a shitty prehistoric HD scan.

    I wouldn't mind if Synapse just closed shop and went away.
    I'm so sick and tired of them.
    (Probably gonna get a lot of hate for saying that, but I just don't give a fuck)
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2022
  20. CPT HOOK

    CPT HOOK Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'd have rather they spent the time and energy finishing TAG: Assassination Game or The Convent instead of rushing out some spite Thriller release. Or even Creature From Black Lake, which seems to have started this whole feud.
     

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