Vinegar Syndrome - New Genre Label

Discussion in 'General' started by MorallySound, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,733
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    As a Canadian completionist subscriber (who also has to pay 1.33 times the price with the exchange rate and then a bit more with adding Canadian shipping to the subscriber price) for this coming year, and the past two years, I do have to admit that I do have a stock pile of unwatched VS releases... but it's not too many (13 titles out of the 176 I currently own and kept). I watch a lot of movies at home, probably 95% of my movie watching is at home (averaging 25 to 40 first-time viewings a month), which a good 70% of that being watching movies I've bought on physical media (be it Blu-ray/DVD/VHS). And on average of that I'm watching probably between 2 to 6 VS titles a month which allows me to keep up with the subscriber package and I actually watch, and want to watch, everything they put out, even when a movie I've seen before and didn't like as I want to see if my opinion has changed and sometimes the restoration itself is worth re-watching. So as to re-watching, I tend to only keep the movies I do plan to re-watch or serves a purpose in my collection since I am a collector, but if it's something I don't ever plan to re-watch after the initial VS viewing it goes up for sale. As to renting and/or streaming, as a Canadian I have even more limited options to rent/stream these titles, if at all, seeing as a lot of Prime or streaming VS titles are not licensed for streaming outside of the US and we don't have Netflix rentals in Canada, only streaming... so for titles I haven't seen before, the physical release is the only way I can see it without resorting to illegal downloads. And honestly, streaming does not really support VS, or any cult film distributor so even if I had the option I'd rather purchase the physical item as the profit from those sales goes to support the company so more titles can be licensed, restored, and released. The royalties for steaming are pennies compared to purchasing a DVD or Blu-ray. While sure, streaming does indeed provide additional revenue it's no where near being a solely viable option for the continuation of cult film preservation, which is also why I'm a subscriber - to support the preservation of forgotten to most films/films studios would never touch or re-release, whether I like them or not. And that I'm a collector first and foremost.

    And the biggest factor is physical media allows me to recoup my investment if it's a title I don't want to keep, which I can't do with streaming or renting. Especially since I'm not located in the US it's a lot harder for me to get these titles at an affordable price, and again usually can only see them on physical media, and so the subscriber package allows me to get them for an average of $20 CAD shipped with the website exclusive slipcovers, where as most of these if I bought them individually would cost me $30 for the standard releases to upwards of $50 CAD each with shipping especially if I wanted the limited slipcover versions. And for titles I've sold after, on average I've been able to sell them for 1.5x what they cost me since they retain their value, and if they go OOP I've been able to make 3 to 4x that so being a subscriber really pays for itself. So being a subscriber is not only economical for me personally, but it ensures the continuation of VS and their work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
    gobad2003 and CPT HOOK like this.
  2. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,733
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
  3. russweiss

    russweiss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,215
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Although I watch a few hundred films per year a good deal of them are theatrically. I find that I am more of a collector than watcher (which some people may not understand). This is my first year subscribing to VS although I came close both of the past two years. I've found that I tend to buy several hundred dollars worth of VS titles over the year and figured I'd spend a bit extra to get all the titles (less the porn). At minimum you can sell titles you don't want. Most for a pretty decent price (I've seen Blood Hook sell for over $100). I was also sent a $25.00 discount code because I purchased the pre Black Friday titles and as Hook mentioned subscribers were given a $60.00 code to resubscribe which is pretty nice.

    As I mentioned I don't watch a whole lot of VS titles but I still really like having them. I probably buy about 300-400 movies a year and only watch a small amount of them. I tend to even buy foreign titles of films that I already own to have different extras and different cover art. I don't have any expensive habits like drinking, smoking, or buying Starbucks everyday but I do like spending money on movies. I have ever since I was 10 years old and picked up my first copy of Famous Monsters back in the 70's.
     
    gobad2003 and Angelman like this.
  4. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,600
    Likes Received:
    963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SoCal
    I just wanted to clarify, when I mentioned "renting/streaming", I wasn't suggesting it as an alternative to buying Vinegar Syndrome product; rather I was pointing out that many VS movies are NOT available in that medium, and thus blind buying probably happens more with their movies than most other labels. And if you HAD seen it in some temporary fashion like that, would you still want a copy in your collection?

    Everyone collects differently. Russ admits he collects more than watches. Not my cup of tea, but he ain't using my money to do it, so more power to him. For me (and once again, this is just me), owning a movie is a reflection of my opinion of that movie's quality. I may see a movie in the theater (or see it via Netflix, Shudder, or premium cable) and think either I hate it, I like it but don't feel the need to have a copy on hand in my home 24/7, or love it and do want a copy in my home. VS movies have hit all three of those buttons for me, but because I almost always have to buy them first, the ones in the first two categories are kind of a waste of cash for me.

    I was just curious if anyone else felt the same way. If 9 out of 10 movies hit that last button, then it's probably worth subscribing. I've found it's less than that (one more time, FOR ME), and thus a subscription wouldn't be feasible for me.
     
  5. Mutilated Prey

    Mutilated Prey Soul Stealer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    6,721
    Likes Received:
    350
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Texarkana
    Not sure who your weatherman is, but I live 10 minutes North of VS’s shipping in CT, and we didn’t get 2 feet of snow. More like a 1/2 inch at best :D

    NH and VT got like a foot or so depending upon where you are.
     
  6. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Myself I have quite a few titles that are sitting my shelf. Haven't had the time to watch them. But for some reason I like having them there. Sorta like what you're saying. I enjoy collecting them. My collection I've almost stopped buying "regular" film releases. Toned down quite a bit. Now I mostly buy stuff from the smaller companies(like VS, Kino, Scorpion, etc...) and the rare old titles that get released on Blu. That, and when certain TV Complete seasons go on sale. I pick them up from time to time. The rest I just go to the theater and watch on Netflix.
     
  7. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not a VS subscriber. For me it's just not worth it. There are so many titles(no even talking about the pron) that I would never get. There are tons of VS titles that I've passed on, even during Black Friday sales.

    Now I've never seen the complete math. Would love for someone to take last years Subscription, the horror/exploitation only. And list the complete total number of releases and amount if bought individually, using the prices VS had on release of each said title. Because each title release isn't the same amount as we have seen. Then there's the well you can sell it on ebay or whatever. I just don't have the energy for that. Besides, you can pick up just about any VS title in various stores for even cheaper than VS's own store. (without slips)
     
  8. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,600
    Likes Received:
    963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SoCal
    Yeah, I hear ya, man. I do buy "regular" releases, but it's usually from the used record stores I frequent, and they're ridiculously cheap. Just got the Blu of Seven last week for 3 bucks.

    Agree here too. The math makes sense, but reselling on E-bay is a chore that I just don't have the time for.
     
    baggio likes this.
  9. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,733
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    I took the time and compiled that info for ya! Here's 2019's horror/exploitation titles, and VS website prices at time of release vs. subscription prices which I'll do based on a US-based subscriber (2019 subscription was $680 USD, but subscribers were also emailed a $60 off coupon for this year's Black Friday sale because they had 3 less titles come out in the year than what was originally planned - so technically bumping that down to $620 USD, which is what I'll then base the math on). Because the subscriber's get the slipcovers, the math is based on the website sale price with the slips (** denotes LE slipcover version has since gone OOP, so these would now fetch on average 2 to 4 times the website price if re-sold):

    Bloody New Year - $24.99
    Uninvited** - $24.49
    There's Nothing Out There** - $24.49
    Splatter University - $24.49
    Wacko - $24.49
    Party Line - $24.49
    Battle for the Lost Planet/Mutant War** - $24.49
    Dominique - $24.49
    In the Cold of the Night - $24.49
    The Suckling** - $24.49
    Fleshpot on 42nd Street - $24.49
    The Corruption of Chris Miller** - $24.49
    Darkroom** - $24.49
    Grandmother's House - $24.49
    Satan's Slave** - $22.99
    Mountaintop Motel Massacre** - $24.99
    Nightbeast - $24.99
    Lust in the Dust - $24.99
    Putney Swope - $24.99
    The Passing - $24.99
    Night Owl - $24.99
    Taking Tiger Mountain - $24.99
    Play Dead - $24.99
    Hellmaster - $24.99
    Hell Comes to Frogtown - $26.99
    Decoder - $24.99
    Pledge Night - $24.99
    The Vineyard - $24.99
    Beyond Evil - $24.99
    Secta Siniestra - $24.99
    Unmasked Part 25 - $24.99
    Berseker - $24.99
    Beyond the Door III - $24.99
    Amityville: The Cursed Collection - $59.99
    The Angel Collection - $49.99
    Tammy and the T-Rex (UHD) - $34.99
    Spookies** - $27.99 (x 2 to get both slipcovers, which subscribers get both of)
    The Candy Snatchers - $24.99

    Total individual website price: $1,044.11.
    Horror/Exploitation subscribers saved $424.11.

    Completionist subscribers got 10 additional titles for only $100 more (so $720 with the BF coupon applied):

    Climax of Blue Power - $22.99
    Tinseltown - $22.99
    Skin Flicks** - $24.49
    The Pink Ladies - $24.99
    Mascara - $24.99
    9 Lives of a Wet Pussy - $24.99
    Let My Puppets Come - $24.99
    Justine - $24.99
    Hard Soap/Disco Lady - $24.99

    Total individual website price: $1,264.52.
    Completionist subscribers saved $544.52.

    For completionist, if you were to factor in the monthly package discount if you were to order that way instead ($9.96 off each month BUT there's no May package or November package because of the Halfway and BF sales, and December has only 2 releases so it's half, so we'd times that by 9.5 - $9.96 x 9.5 = $94.62), total individual website price is $1,169.90, so you're still saving $449.90.

    I've personally been able to sell anything I didn't want to keep for around $18.75 USD each minimum, some OOP titles even upwards of $60+, so based on that minimum if a subscriber were hypothetically wanting to sell off the complete 2019 Horror/Exploitation titles at that price, you'd make $825 which is still $205 profit based on the subscriber price.
     
  10. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wow. Thank you so much. I appreciate the time you took to do that. I can see the value(if you wanted to keep everything) And then the value if sold off some titles.

    So looking at that list I personally bought around 16 out of those 38 releases.(Horror/Exploitation) Only a handful at full price. Like the Black Friday Flash Presale for example. The rest I picked up on sale way below the initial release price. So that's like 20 plus titles I would be selling on Ebay.
     
  11. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,600
    Likes Received:
    963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SoCal
    The only issue I have with your math, MS, is that you're taking the savings off the standard web price. I buy from VS twice a year; Black Friday and Halfway to Black Friday.

    If you take $17.99 as the usual price for VS movies (some go down to $16.49 on BF, but we'll stick with the higher price), and I bought 10 movies at each of those sales, it still only comes out to $368/year. That's why I asked my questions; I can still be a huge VS supporter and have lots of movies from them even without being a subscriber. A subscription would just require a greater effort from me both time-wise and financially.
     
  12. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Same here. While I like the slips. Some of the titles I own are without slips. Because when they sell out of the them, I buy VS titles at another place. DD is one example. With their sales, I can pick up titles year round at under $18.(no slips)
     
  13. CPT HOOK

    CPT HOOK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,723
    Likes Received:
    2,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    US
    Regardless of the math, it simply doesn't sound like a subscription is for some of you. Some of these movies are pretty niche and not for everyone, and that's okay. If there's only 5 movies a year you'd want, getting just those 5 movies is undoubtedly the best way to go.

    For me, I would have ended up buying a majority of these individually anyway, so a subscription works out for me. It's also nice not having to worry about keeping up with releases, finding the best deals, waiting for DeepDiscount sales, not getting slipcovers, etc. You also get everything early, which some people pay extra for via Scream Factory, Diabolik, etc. I would never pay extra for that, I'm all about getting the cheapest price, but it's a fun bonus here. Scream Factory, Arrow, Code Red/Scorpion, Severin, etc are already difficult enough to keep up with, so it's nice having one less label to worry about. You also don't have to spend time placing a new order every month. You place one order a year (well, two if you want the VSA titles, which subscribers get at a substantial discount) and it's done.

    Plus, I've ended up with surprises like Sudden Fury (a terrific Canuxploitation gem that had never been released on home video) or Buddies (terrific, though to be fair not highly rewatchable) that I might have passed on otherwise. Even though this is a horror forum, I'm into just about anything when it comes to movies as long as it's good. Those surprises have even encouraged me to check out some of their earlier releases pre-subscription like Massage Parlor Murders and Good Luck Miss Wyckoff that I might have ignored before, made even easier when you add them to your monthly shipment during their 50% sales. I missed out on their Runaway Nightmare blu-ray, so my only order addition outside of the November releases this sale was the DVD version for only $3.99 using the $5 off coupon.

    I know we talk about selling off the ones you don't want, but I really haven't sold off that many. When I have, it has worked out well. eBay or whatever can be a hassle, but I do it anyway so it's not a big deal. I'm not the type of collector who needs to own all 20 disc editions of Halloween, so I always sell off the old versions whenever I upgrade anything. If you stay on top of it, the money balances out pretty well. It's surprising how many people still buy DVD and VHS, especially when it comes to horror. If you're not concerned with slipcovers or the DVD copies, some people even sell those on eBay. If you're that ambitious and willing to part with those, I'd imagine your subscription could easily pay for itself.

    But this whole conversation about how a Vinegar Syndrome subscription isn't appealing is a bit cyclical. It's like I don't like Marvel movies, therefore a paid subscription to get every Marvel movie on blu-ray would be a huge waste of money for me. Even a company like Arrow, who have some incredible releases that I own many of, releases a lot of stuff I'm simply not interested in. If they had a subscription service (which I believe they did in their early years), I wouldn't spring for it. I probably feel the same way about Mondo Macabro that a lot of you seem to feel about Vinegar Syndrome, I own maybe two of their blu-rays. It all comes down to taste.
     
    russweiss and MorallySound like this.
  14. MorallySound

    MorallySound Mad Mutilator

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,733
    Likes Received:
    1,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    If you want to average out the price per individually, with the subscription you're looking at roughly $14.50 USD/release, which is still cheaper. Sure, it's not for everyone, but it's still the best deal all-around and you get the LE slips and occasional bonus perks (additional $10 off coupon codes for each VSA releases, etc.). Plus, if you don't like slipcovers you can easily sell just those and make at least $5 minimum per slip, which then can bring the cost's down to less than $10/release. I understand it takes take to re-sell stuff, but as collectors and purchasers of physical product that's one of the give-ins if you want to make anything back on a purchase you no longer want; you have to put in the time to list/ship.

    Exactly! Speaking of the time it takes to re-list something for sale, it almost definitely takes more time to have to constantly research titles and find the best deals!
     
  15. baggio

    baggio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    1,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another way to look at it. People who don't buy the subscription are paying an additional couple/few dollars per release for the advantage of picking and choosing. Also what gets lost in this entire thing. If you buy the subscription, you are coughing up $700 for titles sight unseen. (yes I know they list a handful of titles prior) $700 in one shot is a lot of money to some people. Now if they listed the entire catalog for 2020, that might be a different story.
     
  16. hellraiser40

    hellraiser40 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Helchteren, Belgium
    It all depends a bit on your personal and financial situation. At this moment in life, I have the cash to do this so I do it and it's actually a bit addicting, feels like going to the videostore each month and rent a film each week out of the stack of new ones. Also, the only way to see these films legally for me is to buy them (I live in Belgium). There are a lot of movies in my collection that I have only seen once up until now, ranging from crap ones to amazing stuff.

    I also want to point out something : when you buy a physical disc, it's not necessary to immediately watch it. I still have more than half of my life before me (I hope) and in that time, I can watch them.

    That said, you have to take into account that a certain percentage of the movies you get this way, you will only watch once.

    On the other hand, it's perfectly fine to NOT subscribe and pick the ones you want.
     
  17. Angelman

    Angelman OCD Blu Ray Collector

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,924
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I buy a lot of VS but I don't need all.

    - I don't buy/own adult films
    - I don't buy/own cult/non-horror

    So I just pick the ones I want. And I have skipped quite a few in the last year. The Amityville Box was just what I wanted. The other stuff not so much.

    If they did a Silent Night, Deadly Night 3-5 Box I would buy that (hint, hint).
     
  18. CPT HOOK

    CPT HOOK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    7,723
    Likes Received:
    2,561
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    US
    Another great thing about Vinegar Syndrome is you never have to worry about mediocre transfers, bad compression, poor encoding, replacement programs, etc. In the time I've been a subscriber, there has been only one replacement disc. And if you ever do have an issue, they have the best customer service of any of the cult labels.

    Also, with these cult labels, you have to order everything online and you're at the mercy of what they send you. Cracked or busted cases, discs loose in the case, missing slipcovers, unwrapped items from Diabolik, DeepDiscount's useless cardboard raviolli shippers, etc. It's not that common, but it happens. Vinegar Syndrome is sending me 2-6 blu-rays each month and I've never received a broken case or floater disc from them. Amazon, DeepDiscount, Shout Factory, Target, Barnes & Noble, Diabolik, ScreenArchives, etc I can't think of another retailer with as impeccable a track record in that regard (although Ronin is close, but I did get a broken case from them once which they promptly replaced hassle-free).
     
    chancetx likes this.
  19. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    8,644
    Likes Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Illinois
    Wow, surprisingly both my Fright-Rags AND my Arrow orders came in yesterday! I was joking but my other Black Friday purchases did arrive before VS shipped! That's the nice thing about being centrally located and so near the distribution hubs to boot!

    Speaking of which my VS order shipped today; although USPS has yet to obtain it. I was expecting to be at the bottom of the Flash Sale pile because I was a bit late on that so this beats my admittedly low expectations. Although my email does not explicitly mention the UHD which I placed and previously confirmed in my online account. We shall see if that comes. Hopefully that's not a common oversight for those who upgraded.

    I'm hesitant to buy a yearly package for many of the reasons Paff and others have mentioned; although I'd like to see them all I just don't have the time to watch them all. And I'm not going to pay a premium up front to do it; as relatively good of a deal as it admittedly is. I don't have enough time to watch my high priority discs none the less random ones someone mailed me. Although the few VS discs I do find the time to put up on eBay have been paying off so I'm tempted to do it just to flipped whatever I don't like. You could theoretically come out ahead if you're patient and savvy about what you list and when; say after two years. If it wasn't for Tammy and the T-Rex, a guilty pleasure of mine, I wouldn't have gone for the blind pre-order. I never had before and probably won't again unless they tease another guilty pleasure. It turned out alright with this bundle but it was already shaping up to be a safe bet with what they did reveal.

    But that's something of the point of the yearly offer. This is for the faithful that buy VS titles without much regard for what specifically the titles are. They're out there and if VS can get some fiscal operating funds from them it's of mutual benefit. It's those that pre-order everything and leave them to sit on their collector shelves that keeps the lights on and the releases coming from independent distributors. A cheapskate like me who buys twice a year select titles at half price and flips the occasional one is not really doing them much of a favor.

    I think the only studios I would do a yearly package for are Mondo Macabro and SWV but they have a much narrower focus on types of releases so I have a better idea what I'd be getting. I do pre-order and pay full price for MM's Limited Editions regardless of what they are. If I don't like the title I could theoretically sell it and undoubtedly come out well ahead on it too but that's yet to happen; I've enjoyed them all. :D
     
    MorallySound likes this.
  20. Paff

    Paff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2000
    Messages:
    8,600
    Likes Received:
    963
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SoCal
    I watched a couple of Vinegar Syndrome movies over the weekend since it's been on my mind. By the way, I hope everyone posts some personal reviews/recommendations in this thread; we're all getting that $5 coupon for use next year, and I fully intend on using mine. Would love to know if there's some titles out there that should be on my radar (other than my already substantial "want" section in my checklist).

    Fleshpot on 42nd St. This was a first time watch for me, having gotten it on the Halfway sale earlier this year. The super low-budget and poor filmmaking quality in general takes a little time to get used to (I've never seen an Andy Milligan movie before). You also have to figure in how revolutionary it was to have a transgender co-star, and prostitute as the main character. And by prostitute, showing the more accurate vision rather than glamorizing it (I.E., Holly Golightly in Breakfast at Tiffany's). As such, it's one of the few films where the sex scenes actually service the plot and are more than just an easy way for the director to knock out 5-10 minutes of running time. I'm still a little on the fence as to whether I enjoyed this film or not, but I was glad I saw it.

    Terror. A semi re-watch, as I made it about halfway through earlier this year but turned it off due to being tired and not exactly engaged by the film. Now having seen it all the way through, I can say that the more interesting stuff does happen in the final 30 minutes and is well worth it. I do see the Argento inspired scenes, including one murder that's rather identical to a scene in Inferno, except this pre-dates Inferno by two years. Hmmmm. This one I definitely like having in my collection, and I'm gonna want to listen to the commentary and see the interviews. Recommended, and easily one of my favorite VS discs. Get yourself one if you don't have it already.
     

Share This Page