David Cronenberg's SCANNERS from Criterion 7/15/14

Discussion in 'High Definition' started by bruce h, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. zbinks

    zbinks Beset by Creatures of the Deep

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    I think the restoration on the Subkultur release was handled by Torsten Kaiser of TLEFilms. He was also responsible for the recent restorations of Re-Animator and Bride of Re-Animator that were released on Blu-Ray by Capelight Films in Germany and for the restorations of Fritz Lang's M that were released by Criterion, Eureka and Universum a few years back.

    Does anyone know of any other TLEFilms restorations that have been released on Blu-Ray?
     
  2. foller

    foller Active Member

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    To me the Subkultur looks best. Just look at the pictures 2+3 in post 35. The SS looks way to greenish. In the 4th picture with the helicopter you can also see that it starts to blur between the fast moving rotors on the SS disc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  3. zbinks

    zbinks Beset by Creatures of the Deep

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  4. zbinks

    zbinks Beset by Creatures of the Deep

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  5. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    I picked it up yesterday at Barnes & Noble. Used a 20% off coupon and got it for just over $15 after tax.

    It looks really solid...I just don't know about the color scheme choice. The colors and skintones do look really muted at times. Stereo looks great in HD however.
     
  6. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    I'd been hoping up till now we've just had bad screen captures, it's happened before. But now that the disc is in people's hands in mass we know they were indeed accurate.

    Looking at the closeup of Michael Ironside you can zoom in on his eye to get a good comparison of the level of details and color range between them.

    You can clearly see the pores on Ironside's face on the Subkultur while they are more blurred in the Criterion. Also in the iris of the eye you see more fine details and better color range on the Subkultur than the Criterion. The Second Sight transfer is not as good as the Subkultur but is better than the Criterion in the same ways.

    All the peak white areas on the Criterion or "blow outs" are grey. You can even see this in the light reflections of the eyes. Even if the image was intended to be greyer overall a good color balance job would have balanced those highlights properly. Frankly whoever did the transfer fucked up the grading. You can argue the heavy DNR is better or that the color is the director's choice. You can't argue with the execution of the contrast. That's just plain bad. Criterion should be embarrassed. I highly doubt the DNR and color grading are the results of a properly made transfer.

    I'm reluctant to buy this, as I don't want to encourage poor transfers, but I do want the extras. Plus there is the Cronenberg/Scanners/Criterion combination that just makes it desirable. Fuck.
     
  7. shithead

    shithead Death By Ejaculation

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    In some screens the Subkultur looks better, in others the Criterion.

    This shot for example...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ^Criterion has more detail on the coke sign.

    Subkultar easily looks better in screen # 2, 7 and 10, but the rest are very comparable, IMO.
     
  8. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    Not really, you're comparing a light source which can be a little blown out, which is fine. That's an on location establishing shot using a lot of ambient lighting with a practical in the shot (IE the light up Coke sign). Not an ideal reference. When you look at a shot within the studio using close ups on the main actors like the one I referenced with Ironside that's where you expect things to be right. That's what Subkultur got right and what Criterion fucked up. That Subkultur is slightly brighter and warmer than perfection, I'll agree to, however the Criterion fucked up the gamma over the entire transfer plain and simple. Criterion has poor contrast, a grey hue and excessive DNR.

    If you look at the wooden counter with the signs on it you can tell the Subkultur even still is slightly more detailed. Basically Criterion pulled a Homer on a few shots, making a few incidentals appear better. But overall when you compare something like close ups where Criterion looks out of focus by comparison and we have other shots that show Criterion's DNR removing on set objects there's no defending it.
     
  9. satans-sadists

    satans-sadists Ghost

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  10. Chomp

    Chomp Rudest Motherfucker on HD

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    Why is the Criterion transfer consistantly getting positive reviews? I can see them overlooking the color scheme seeing as it was supervised by Cronenberg, but the use of DNR is inexcusable and blatantly evident. You don't even need screen comparisons to see it...just look at close up shots of faces. Ridiculous.
     
  11. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    They probably donĀ“t dare to say anything negative about Criterion, as they might stop receiving free movies from them to review ;)
     
  12. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    4.5 out of 5 is absurd. It's an insult to people who put in all the work to make 4/4.5 transfers.

    The viewer even describes the transfer wrong, as the colors are cooler on the Criterion comparatively. I'd give the Criterion a 3/5, subtract -0.5 for the DNR and -0.5 for the poor contrast/gamma. Subkultur would be about 4/5. Subkultur weren't even using the negatives so there's a lot more room for colors and detail. A 5/5 would be 4k/8k native HD perfectly downconverted to 2k with no actual film inbetween. Criterion's transfer is far from that.

    On DVD Talk's scale what would that even make the Subkultur transfer which clearly has more detail and better contrast? 6.5 out of 5? I really don't understand the logic there.

    But people will defend anything, as the VCI White Zombie transfer most recently showed. A lot of people were defending that as the best possible transfer to expect, then VCI's producer admitted they used the wrong transfer on the disc and re-issued it. :rolleyes:

    It's kinda amazing how the same company who did the stellar work on Re-Animator, Bride of Re-Animator and Society is getting snubbed by people just 'cause "Criterion, Criterion, Criterion."
     
  13. CPT HOOK

    CPT HOOK Well-Known Member

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    I got a 20% coupon for Barnes & Noble in my e-mail, so I picked this up for $15.99. :banana:
     
  14. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    Mine came in last week, but I haven't had a chance to watch it. Popping it in tonight to see what all of the fuss is about.
     
  15. SaviniFan

    SaviniFan I Have A Fetish

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    I'll just stick with my Second Sight steelbook. I'm very pleased with it and I'm not a Criterion completist, so easy pass.
     
  16. bruce h

    bruce h Editor - CINEMA ARCANA

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    I got the Criterion, and really don't have any problems with the way it looks -- its cooler color timing is actually pretty close to the MGM DVD, and I think the Subkultur clips (which show up in the Stephen Lack interview) actually look too warm and boosted. It's definitely up to the buyer, but I don't have any regrets about my purchase -- and I was initially very hesitant due to the screencap comparisons. (I also feel the disc looks much better on my tv than it does in those caps -- another reason why I don't 100% trust cap comparisons.)
     
  17. Ptflea2

    Ptflea2 Well-Known Member

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    Like Bruce, I'm also happy with the Criterion Blu, especially after using a 20% off coupon the already 50% off Barnes and Noble sale.
     
  18. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    Yeah, I would suggest that people don't base their opinion solely on the screenshot comparisons...in this instance at least. The Criterion's colors and contrast really don't look nearly as muted or ugly as the screenshots suggest.
     
  19. Chomp

    Chomp Rudest Motherfucker on HD

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    Honestly...color and contrast isn't even something I have a problem with. Its the obvious use of DNR and the free pass everybody seems to give them because of the, "hey, they're Criterion, they're film elitists and they know what's good for us" perception.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  20. russweiss

    russweiss Well-Known Member

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    I watched the Criterion release of Scanners this morning. The last time I saw the film was in 1982. The first thing that struck me was how good the picture looked. The movie held up very well and even though it was an obviously low budget the effects held up too. The exploding head scene especially looked good on a big HD screen. One thing that didn't work well IMO was Stephen Lack's acting skills. He wasn't realistic in his performance. The music also didn't work well in several scenes. Overall an entertaining film and a great transfer make this worth owning. I've never seen parts 2 or 3 but own them on blu-ray and will most likely watch them in the near future.
     

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