Argento's 'Opera' in HD?

Discussion in 'High Definition' started by Paul_s, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    Yeah, that's pretty much my point. He really should have clearly explained WHY it had Mono, or why it initially had specs as Stereo and was then silently changed. He obviously knew about it and saw the myriads of questions on Facebook and the various forums. He could have chipped in at any time with a disclaimer or clarification, but he chose to remain silent.

    He could have simply said "YES, the release does have Italian Mono, and the reason is..." and I believe very few people would have been as pissed off. People would have been disappointed of course, even not wanting to buy it then, but it would have been the right thing to do.

    I do think the disc error listing clearly shows there was some kind of screw-up with the Italian audio. They either thought it was Stereo while authoring/pressing the disc, and then edited the back cover spec later on, or something. It's just all fishy.
     
  2. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    At this point, you really can't view any Scorpion screw-up in isolation. They have a well-established history of worse-than-shoddy quality control. That's really unacceptable in this day and age. They could have easily caught ANY of their many f-ups simply by sending screener discs to the various genre review websites. When you screw up this regularly and royally, why wouldn't you do that? It wouldn't cost nearly as much as bad publicity is going to cost them. Does anyone want to attempt to justify ignoring a huge pool of QC testers that would gladly test discs for free when you botch NEARLY EVERY RELEASE--even those you work on for an extra year?

    You know when you pay a premium to Synapse that Don May has personally ensured you're getting the absolute-best product that can be produced. I've stupidly continued to buy Scorpion releases, but I think this is the Alamo for me. When you consistently screw up and typically respond like an ostrich, you're unworthy of consumer confidence. At this point, the blame falls on all of us as much as them. Why do we keep giving them the benefit of the doubt? I feel like an idiot who got taken by a pyramid scheme.
     
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  3. Do you see

    Do you see Member

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    I had held off buying, so based on everything I've been reading on the editions available I just went and ordered the Cult Films special edition from amazon uk (along with House that Jack Built).
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  4. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    And if anyone received the disc today, do this:

    Switch between the English Stereo track and the Italian Mono track, especially when a lot is happening on screen during the movie. It's just blatantly obvious how poor the movie plays out in Mono, and it was clearly mixed for Stereo... not to mention the fact there is an Italian "Dolby Stereo" consultant (Federico Savina) who worked on the film and is credited in the film's end credits.

    Sure, the Mono track is serviceable. You can listen to it... but it sure sounds flat.
     
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  5. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    Scorpion should design a logo that incorporates half of an ass. It'd look good on the spine and remind us why we shouldn't buy any of their future releases. Clearly, I'm in need of a reminder. Maybe that'd finally get me to stop.
     
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  6. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    ...and we finally have an official response from Scorpion regarding Opera's Italian audio: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16241134&postcount=12643

     
  7. Steel76

    Steel76 Well-Known Member

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    Why the fuck didn't he ask the italians about the stereo track?
    And they didn't notice it was in MONO???
    What kind of amateurs are running this business?
     
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  8. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    I love how people are defending them on this. "Well they said in the listing it was mono, where is the confusion?"

    The confusion arises due to the fact that this movie was NEVER recorded in mono, so where did this botched track come from? And how could they not know? They went the extra mile to correct mistakes on the first release but didn't bother to check whether or not they had the correct Italian track? What a joke.

    They ARE amateurs, plain and simple. Almost all of their releases have some sort of fuck-up, and it's usually the audio.

    ~Matt
     
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  9. gobad2003

    gobad2003 Active Member

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    At the end of the day Walt put out a pretty great release and even went back to fix the wobble everyone was bitching about, Other companies wouldn't even bother and just put it out as-is and call it a day. The English is my go to audio anyway so this doesn't bother me and the picture is amazing and pretty much the definitive release.

    I only know of a couple releases where they fucked up the audio, Certainly not half of their catalog :rolleyes: You really need to find another hobby when a movie pisses you off this bad. #FirstWorldProblems
     
  10. X-human

    X-human I ate my keys

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    That's a confusing statement. It seems he had no idea until just this week but the Ronin listing accurately stated it was mono before Opera was released to the public. So was it someone at Ronin who figured it out and adjusted the listing on their own? Also he's appealing to the authority of Jim Kunz but that's not the issue. Anyone can make a mistake. And I wouldn't say the buck starts and stops at Kunz anyways. I haven't seen anyone attack him.

    But if Walt had no idea and Ronin are the ones who caught it that does make more sense. I was wondering if the fact that it was over a weekend was why Walt was unresponsive. Either he himself wasn't paying attention (a dumb thing to do mere days before such a huge release) or he didn't know what was going on and couldn't get direct response from people outside of business hours. Or a mixture of both.

    So it all comes down to that one pertinent question, "What did he know and when did he know it?"

    And he's since edited the last sentence to now say:
    Which I've heard before from other distributors; you get what you get with the Italians and good luck asking for anything else. Perhaps he could tell them to "look again" because presumably they have a stereo track laying around if other distributors have utilized it. But it sounds like he didn't know to ask until this week. And with the release out it is a bit like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.

    So now I'm curious how does the Scorpion release compare to recent foreign releases with the "stereo" Italian track? Are other releases just the mono track duplicated to Right/Left? It would be flagged stereo so maybe nobody noticed or thought to even look.
     
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  11. wago70

    wago70 Surviving on nostalgia

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    I just got this in the mail - with free shippings! Anyway, should I keep the previous blu, too? Does that have the better audio?
     
  12. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    Apparently the subtitles on this release are just "dubtitles" from the dub track instead of proper subtitles, so that's another thing wrong with this one. o_O
     
  13. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Okay not half their catalogue, but Humongous, The Psychic, Tower of Evil and now Opera. And the last 3 of those titles came out one after the other so I think it's pretty fair to question their quality control when they're charging $50 + shipping and giving you a flawed product. And, the audio issues on The Psychic (the Italian track is out of sync for like 30 mins) and Humongous are significant.

    Oh and hardly anyone complained about the wobble, it was nowhere near a majority. In fact, dozens of people on the blu-ray.com forums were telling Walt not to bother with that because it was a very vocal minority and wasn't worth the time or the cost to fix. But no, he insisted on fixing that and made it a point that they were going to include the stereo Italian track. So, they fixed the wobble and fucked the audio. The wobble lasted minutes but the audio is now something that affects the entire film, so IMO the trade-off here was worse. You pushed back the release date of the deluxe edition to give us the ultimate edition, and now people are finding things wrong with it. Totally fair that people are annoyed by that.

    And I'm willing to accept Walt's explanation that maybe they didn't know (even though that's still a rather shitty excuse but whatever) because it turns out they were actually given a dual-mono track that appeared to be stereo. However, them silently changing the listing on Ronin without making an official announcement and then ignoring peoples' questions when they asked for clarification just rubbed people the wrong way. Sure it was on Ronin's site, but the fact that a mono track for this film has never existed in any form, it led to confusion. I work in sales, the way Scorpion dealt with this issue is worse than the fuck-up itself, and that was the point.

    Anyway, I just downloaded a really high quality rip of the German disc with the Italian 2.0 and it looks and sounds really nice. Did the same with Humongous, since Scorpion refuses to offer a replacement program for that one too.

    What a clusterfuck this has been.

    #FirstWorldProblems tho.

    ~Matt
     
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  14. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    No, the first release from Scorpion only included 2 English tracks (5.1 and 2.0). The Italian track is exclusive to the deluxe edition.

    ~Matt
     
  15. shape22

    shape22 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Matt on this one. It's cool to be a less demanding consumer, but less defensible to criticize those who think Synapse prices should equate to Synapse quality. A bad release like this has a ripple effect, because another region A restoration is unlike to appear for some time. Had Synapse gotten the rights to Opera instead of Scorpion, we would be holding a definitive release. Now we're left with a flawed product, $50 holes in our wallets, and less than ideal solutions that require more time and effort on top of the current aggravation.

    If I owned a label, ONE f'd up release would lead to major QC procedure changes--especially when so many knowledgeable folks would happily assist for free. Is it easy to f up a home video release? Scorpion, Severin (The Changeling), Universal (Creature Legacy), and many other companies would have to confirm it is. But when problems are so severe that they're caught within HOURS of a release reaching circulation--MULTIPLE TIMES IN A SHORT WINDOW--you have to wonder whether or not the company is trustworthy, or whether they give a damn at all. It's fair to wonder that about Scorpion at this point.

    Feel free to devote your attention to world peace, smell the flowers, watch Nagasaki newsreels, and convince yourself that this is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Taken to that extreme, we'd all agree with you. But you're posting ON A HORROR MEDIA MESSAGE BOARD. If we can't vent understandable frustrations about high-profile, WAIT YEARS FOR IT releases here, then where?

    I'm not trying to give you too hard a time. I just don't understand attempting to justify this situation. They messed up, it's inexcusable, and they should be trying to make it right.
     
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  16. Matt89

    Matt89 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And I’m not totally buying the whole “they didn’t know” argument. I mean maybe that is the case. Maybe they didn’t know. But to work on this title for over a year and only NOW notice, after the discs have been pressed, days before the release, that you actually had the wrong audio? I really don’t know what’s worse, because that excuse now makes them look like incompetent amateurs.

    Similar to what Kino did with The Good, the Bad & the Ugly - they made it a huge point that they were going to include the original theatrical cut, but when they finally released it, it was discovered that they actually used the old MGM DVD from the ‘90s as a reference point, which was widely known to not actually be the ‘true’ theatrical cut. It makes you wonder why they would go through all the effort and then actually screw up the final release? As easy as it is to screw up a release, it’s just as easy to get it right. They had more than enough info and input from fans regarding the true theatrical cut and they still messed it up. That’s so annoying (and such a shame that Kino outbid Criterion for the dollars trilogy). Same thing here.

    And while I do agree it is a “first world problems” kinda thing (because really it is), like shape said, this is a horror movie forum, after all. We’re video/audiophiles, of course these kinds of things matter to us.

    ~Matt
     
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  17. wago70

    wago70 Surviving on nostalgia

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    Why, oh why - is it ONLY the titles I purchase have quality control issues :eek::eek:
     
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  18. Katatonia

    Katatonia Hellbound Heart

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    ...and why are they always the expensive Ronin releases! :eek::eek:
     
  19. gobad2003

    gobad2003 Active Member

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    Very true that they screwed up on this but at the end of the day I still like this release because it's the best it's ever looked and the English is my go to option anyway. I'll probably watch the Italian once maybe as a curiosity but I can see your point if the Italian is your go to version. Maybe down the road Arrow gets ahold of this and releases the definitive version but until then I'm perfectly fine with this release.

    And just so you know they are fixing Tower of Evil So there is that ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  20. Grim

    Grim Well-Known Member

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    Yeeeeesh. I may just stick with my single disc after all. I barely noticed the "stuttering" and it otherwise looks and sounds great.
     

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